// cleaned transcript · Oct 14, 2026
Tunde: the conversation
This is the cleaned publication copy: noise, private topics and figures are removed and marked [redacted]. Line numbers match the original recording transcript.
L1Nix: Hey, good morning.
L2Nix: Hey, man. Good morning.
L3Nix: Hey.
L4Tunde: Tunde!
L5[redacted: third party audio]
L6Nix: Hey, what's up, brother? Good to see your— see you. What's up, man?
L7Nix: Oh, there he is. What's up?
L8Nix: Man, I got—
L9Tunde: How are you?
L10Nix: —I got so excited when I saw you sign up, man. I got so excited. You're a celebrity, man.
L11Tunde: Right. Uh, you're too generous.
L12Nix: So what's going on, man?
L13Tunde: Well, a lot's going on. Um, building a company is a full-time job.
L14Nix: I hear ya. I hear ya. I've done it before and not done so well, and I've done it before and done okay, so I wish you the best.
L15Nix: So let me— let me explain what we're doing here. Um, I don't know if you've been to Omarchy.builders.
L16Nix: That's the entire website domain. Omarchy.builders.
L17Nix: Um.
L18Tunde: Okay.
L19Nix: So, you know, we do the spaces, and we do the Omarchy stories blog— video blog, which is coming out today. Um.
L20Tunde: Okay.
L21Nix: A bunch of other stuff. And, uh, just by chance, I had a Zoom with Lee. I just reached out to him one-on-one and said, "Hey, I'd love to meet with you and understand what you're doing."
L22Nix: And then that got me to another guy named James. And then I thought, well, why not put a Calendly out invite out there and, uh, invite people to sign up to be interviewed about Omarchy?
L23Nix: And.
L24Tunde: Okay.
L25Nix: I put it up there at 1:00 a.m., and by 5:00 a.m. I had about 30, um, people asked to chat. So much so that I had to go to the Calendly and limit the times that people could sign up because there was, like, days where there were 7 in a row with no breaks.
L26Nix: Um.
L27Tunde: Mm-hmm.
L28Nix: Which I'm happy to get, don't get me wrong. Um, and what I do is I record the meeting, which I'm recording now. And if you go to.
L29Tunde: Mm-hmm.
L30Nix: That website, Omarchy.builders, I take it and I do a profile on them about what— and it's really leaned towards them— well, it's all about them, but about their Omarchy, um, journey. I hate that word. Um, and all that.
L31Nix: So I want to officially ask you, do I have your permission to record this transcript?
L32Tunde: Of course.
L33Nix: Okay, great. And, uh, do I have your permission to put your profile on the website?
L34Tunde: Oh, that's fine. That's fine.
L35Nix: Fantastic.
L36Tunde: That's fine.
L37Nix: Well, man.
L38Tunde: Thank you.
L39Nix: What kind of— and don't say anything that you don't want, you know, like, if we get to the end and you don't like something, just tell me and I won't put it in there. Um.
L40Tunde: Mm-hmm.
L41Nix: But let's start from the beginning, man. Like, what was— a lot of people have started on the Commodore 64. Uh, I think you're a little bit younger than that, but, like, what was your first computer that you— that you started with?
L42Nix: And, and, like, take me from where what locked in for you. And, uh, goodness gracious, you're building a company now, so you've got to be pretty technical.
L43Nix: Um, you're a great charismatic leader. I can already tell that from just talking to you on spaces.
L44Nix: So kind of give me your background that you want to share, and, and where you came up, and what it— what influenced you in technology, and, and how you got to the point of being a business leader.
L45Tunde: Okay. Hey, that's a bit long, but I'll do my best to compress it and.
L46Nix: Oh, you don't have to compress it. I love— I've loved the whole story.
L47Tunde: All right. Okay. Um, first computer for me that I saw— well, I think I saw two at the same time.
L48Tunde: One was in a friend's place, and I think that was the Amiga. So it wasn't a Commodore.
L49Nix: All right. Yeah.
L50Tunde: I think it was the Amiga. And, um, we played a combat, uh, game there, so that— that got me interested. And, um, then the other computers I saw after that were in my dad's office.
L51Tunde: [redacted: private family detail]
L52Nix: Sure.
L53Tunde: Office stuff. Uh, Lotus 123 and some other— some other things from back in the day. Uh, the first computer that I, uh, worked on that then really got me hooked, a PC came into the house.
L54Tunde: Um, it sat there for almost a year.
L55Nix: Wow.
L56Tunde: [redacted: private family detail]
L57Nix: Right.
L58Tunde: Um, so I would go in, I just, uh, unboxed it. Before unboxing became a word. I assembled it.
L59Tunde: I didn't really know how to assemble them. Then I'll go to these, uh, PC repair shops, watch guys fixing PCs, and I'll go home and then assemble them.
L60Tunde: And when I say go, come, um, this was in West Africa, Nigeria.
L61Nix: Sure.
L62Tunde: Many, many years ago in that, yeah, in the '80s. So a kid going and coming, that's— that's not necessarily a safe thing in some parts of the world.
L63Nix: Understood.
L64Tunde: So, um, so when I say going and coming, I was sneaking out and sneaking back in.
L65Nix: Like, literally risking your life to learn.
L66Tunde: Yeah, but sneaking in. Nobody knew how to sneak out, sneak in. So some people would sneak out for parties.
L67Tunde: I was sneaking out for tech.
L68Nix: Nice.
L69Tunde: So, um, yeah, then— so I learned slowly how to assemble it. Then I finally assembled it. And I think what was on it was a Windows— was it 3.1 or something like that?
L70Tunde: Windows 3.1 back in the day.
L71Nix: Okay.
L72Tunde: And, um, so all I— maybe, maybe it was even before that, because all I could see was DOS, the command prompt. Didn't know anything to do about it, so I read the manuals that came with the PC.
L73Nix: Right.
L74Tunde: And some— somehow I got myself into, uh, basic programming language.
L75Nix: Got it.
L76Tunde: Which I saw there. Uh, then started understanding what was programming, what was source code, what was compiling, what was a binary, what was linking. Good old programming fundamentals from back in the day.
L77Tunde: And, um, started writing basic.
L78Nix: Okay.
L79Tunde: Wrote basic for about 3 months. Really enjoyed it. And then discovered C.
L80Tunde: Really enjoyed C.
L81Nix: Wow.
L82Tunde: Really, really enjoyed. Yeah.
L83Nix: That's—
L84Tunde: Really enjoyed C.
L85Nix: Not bad.
L86Tunde: Yeah, it's, um, maybe, but this— there weren't— there were a lot fewer distractions back then, so.
L87Nix: But hold on. Learning C without the internet, which I'm assuming this was kind of pre-internet. Learning C without the internet, that's— there's a high level of intelligence and persistence needed for that.
L88Tunde: Yes, persistence for sure, because nobody in my family was interested. And, um, so you had books. I kind of remember some of the— then sometimes it was just manuals, like, um, discarded lecture notes from some of the schools.
L89Nix: Sure.
L90Tunde: In the area. That and, um, so I just started practicing that. Really, really liked, uh, C.
L91Tunde: And from there, um, went into— then I went into school, into university. Originally, uh, I'm trained as a petroleum engineer, so we worked drilling, wells, etc. for a living back then.
L92Tunde: And even in school, the programming language of choice in an engineering school was Fortran.
L93Nix: Right.
L94Tunde: And, yeah, the way that they taught us Fortran then was there were no PCs, nothing. So somebody would be writing on the board, and you would write your code on paper.
L95Nix: Wow.
L96Tunde: And they would— yeah, they would grade. So you had to be able to explain why it would compile on paper.
L97Nix: Wow.
L98Tunde: Without having access to your computer.
L99Nix: That is crazy.
L100Tunde: So, yes, it's— it's beyond crazy. It's ridiculous.
L101Nix: No.
L102Tunde: So after I got.
L103Nix: People, like, the kids can't even comprehend what you're talking about now.
L104Tunde: Uh, yeah. I can— I think it was just weird. So, but I could— if you've done C and you're now seeing Fortran, then I found it very limiting.
L105Nix: Uh-huh.
L106Tunde: To the— to the point where when we started getting assignments, after— after I got fed up with it, when we started getting assignments, I just wrote my assignments in C.
L107Nix: Okay.
L108Tunde: And the first two, um, lecturers, like, just failed me because you must do this in Fortran.
L109Nix: Right.
L110Tunde: We don't accept C, etc.
L111Nix: But you were doing it in a harder language.
L112Tunde: Yeah, in C. Because I figured, I said, "I've been out," I said, "There's no— there's no jobs with Fortran out there. Why would I burn?"
L113Nix: Right. Right. What's the point?
L114Tunde: What's the point? And it was faster in C. It was shorter even than in C.
L115Tunde: It was more accurate in C. I finally got access to a PC.
L116Tunde: I could test it in C.
L117Nix: Sure.
L118Tunde: And I— guys, like, please, please, please get me with the program.
L119[redacted: private, lines 119 to 120]
L121Nix: Wow.
L122Tunde: There or thereabouts. Yeah. Yeah, because for many reasons, I was bored, I was in a hurry, and again, I just didn't fall into many distractions, parties.
L123Tunde: I just didn't, partly because I just wasn't that social a person.
L124Nix: Sure.
L125Tunde: And I really found it difficult to connect, um, socially for the fun of it. It was a real struggle.
L126Nix: Right.
L127Tunde: So, um, so that's— that's how— that was the computing journey. Then I kept— I held onto that, worked in the oil fields. There were a lot of risks in the oil fields, safety— health and safety issues, as you can imagine.
L128Nix: Uh-huh.
L129[redacted: private family detail]
L130Tunde: And then.
L131Nix: There was no ocean, probably no safety standards. It was just like, do it.
L132Tunde: I mean, there— there were, but it's— this is, again, West Africa, where the rules can be a bit flexible for.
L133Nix: Flexible. Nice.
L134Tunde: Yeah.
L135Nix: Nice.
L136Tunde: And sometimes they even made us, like, sign waivers. So if you were doing.
L137Nix: Against yourself.
L138Tunde: Yeah. So if you were— so there's a part of drilling that's called well logging, and there's a specific area of well logging called, uh, where— where you use radioactive materials, gamma ray logging. So you are basically exposed to radioactive materials.
L139Tunde: You know, you could be, it could be risky, but they then made you sign waivers.
L140Nix: Could be.
L141Tunde: Yeah. But you had to sign a waiver, and they would try to pay you more because obviously it's a risky.
L142Nix: Right.
L143Tunde: It's a risky, uh, thing. But, um, I just had to exit that and used some of the math knowledge and the programming knowledge to just pull away from field engineering into software.
L144Nix: Right.
L145Tunde: And then into core IT. So the typical certifications you would do then, the Microsoft certs, the Cisco certs, I did all that while I was studying in school as well, and then used it to get, um, jobs in industry.
L146Nix: Right.
L147Tunde: Also while in school. So I was schooling and working. Most people didn't know that.
L148Tunde: In fact, nobody knew that at home.
L149Nix: Right.
L150Tunde: I was schooling and working then. And finally crossed into pure tech. And I've been in— and I was in pure tech for almost 20 years before moving into, um, revenue operations, pre-sales, that sort of thing, which was just in the last 7 or so years before then starting this company.
L151Nix: Wow. And what's— do you mind sharing what the company's about? I don't mind if you plug the crap out of it.
L152Nix: Like.
L153Tunde: Oh, no.
L154Nix: Blast it out, man.
L155Tunde: No.
L156Nix: To kill it.
L157Tunde: Oh, yeah. So the company that we started, uh, this is just under 2 years ago now, we're called ZeroRamp. And what we do is, at least what we set out to do, is to solve employee activation globally.
L158Tunde: And whilst we're doing that, we want to respect the privacy, the cost, and the sovereignty of our customers. So what does employee activation then mean?
L159Tunde: So if you hire somebody, rather than going through the laborious process of getting them up to speed, maybe in 3 months or in 6 months before they become autonomous, can we shorten that to 3 to 4 weeks?
L160Nix: Okay.
L161Tunde: After— after which they begin to produce, you know, for the company on their own. That's phase one. Phase two then is, once they're up to speed, there are things that change about their jobs, the project, the industry, the market, that could either mean if it sells, they're selling what no longer exists, or they're leaving money on the table.
L162Tunde: So how can we intercept those changes, determine the commercial relevance, and then route it to the people that need to know? So that they are— so that they don't degrade from that round state, so to speak.
L163Nix: Right. Well, and what's the URL to your company, if you don't mind sharing that?
L164Tunde: Oh, it's zeroramp, Z-E-R-O-R-A-M-P dot com.
L165Nix: Awesome. Awesome. Do you mind if I put that on there for your.
L166Tunde: Oh, no, no. Don't worry.
L167Nix: Cool. I just want to respect your privacy, uh, levels.
L168Tunde: Oh, of course.
L169Nix: Everybody has a level where it stops. All right.
L170Tunde: Oh, yeah.
L171Nix: Um, how did— are you finished there with that part?
L172Tunde: Oh, no, no, no. It's a conversation. We can.
L173Nix: Okay, cool.
L174Tunde: You can ask questions and we go.
L175Nix: Like, keep going with the story, but bring me to where you got to Omarchy. And.
L176Tunde: Yep.
L177Nix: Also, within the Omarchy arc, like, include what— like, start with where you got to Omarchy, and then start into, like, when you decided to make the, uh, start the meetup meeting, and then.
L178Tunde: Yeah.
L179Nix: Talk a little bit about the meetup and how well it's going and the things that you're proud of for the meetups.
L180Tunde: Okay, perfect. So Omarchy is Linux on the desktop, right? Therefore, where I can— the origin story is best told from how I got into Unix or Linux, etc.
L181Tunde: So, as with many of us in this community, um, I had been in Unix and Linux, or from a server perspective.
L182Nix: Yep.
L183Tunde: So, my— yeah, so my first maybe was a 2.0 kernel, Red Hat 7.1, thereabouts. This was in.
L184Nix: Yeah, so you're not.
L185Tunde: Yeah. Yeah, so 2.0 kernel, 7.1, before Fedora became a thing, CentOS became a thing. So I'd been doing that commercially for many, many years, and never had— very limited, for almost 10 years, I'd never seen what the Linux desktop looked like, ever.
L186Tunde: So my, my full interaction was always.
L187Nix: Right.
L188Tunde: Yeah, completely. To the point where I was in a data center once, this was after I had moved here to the UK, the— and there was— there was some machines I was working on, I then went into the data center, and someone was talking to me on the phone, "Go to this aisle, go to this rack, you're almost there." And as I walked past it, I realized that the terminal is there.
L189Tunde: It's there. It's Red Hat Enterprise this.
L190Tunde: And I couldn't recognize it because I hadn't seen it before.
L191Nix: Right.
L192Tunde: So, so slowly after that, I started getting into the desktop, and I think tried Fedora. It was basic, nothing fancy there. I tried Ubuntu.
L193Tunde: One time I basically used Ubuntu on the desktop at work for almost 4 years.
L194Nix: Right.
L195Tunde: And just— so I could do engineering work with it, but couldn't do office work with it effectively.
L196Nix: Sure.
L197Tunde: So that got me into the Mac. And Mac was that good middle ground there because it's fundamentally a Darwin, which is a Unix, so the command line felt familiar, but the interface was polished enough that you could have office applications there. So I was on the Mac for almost 10 years.
L198Nix: Agreed.
L199Tunde: That was a good middle ground. So, um, then— so how— what I— how I then got into Omarchy is I had first heard about it from the guy who runs this YouTube channel, Linux, by the way. That's the name of the YouTube channel.
L200Nix: Uh-huh.
L201Tunde: He— he attended the first OmaCon conference that was held in New York. So he was there. They were still small scale then.
L202Tunde: This was pre-quattro. And, uh, Toby was there, David was there, PrimeAgent was there, I mean, all the who's who was there.
L203Tunde: And that's how I really got to know about it. Then by the time I— by the time Quattro came out, I'd been following it, and then it— it was just— it just made sense to make the switch then because I was going to cycle, I was going to change my laptop then.
L204Tunde: I thought, "Okay, just going to do it." So I just bought the XPS, uh, downloaded Quattro, and I— maybe, maybe— of course, now I know most people are not like this, but I didn't have, like, a side-by-side, "Let's try it," type of thing.
L205Nix: Right.
L206Tunde: Yeah.
L207Nix: That was before it was available.
L208Tunde: Oh, yeah. I didn't have that kind of thing at all. So Quattro was released, bought the laptop, just installed it, and I— I just switched immediately.
L209Tunde: Literally switched. I didn't have my Mac side-by-side.
L210[redacted: private, lines 210 to 225]
L226Tunde: Yeah, that's perfect. So Quattro XPS, I installed it, literally just packed the— put the Mac at an M4 site, um, and I plugged it in. This was 30 minutes before a work meeting.
L227Nix: Oh my goodness.
L228Tunde: I plugged it in.
L229Nix: That's— that's ballsy, brother.
L230Tunde: Yeah, it's— it's the— I thought— I thought there's— I mean, it's either going to work or not work.
L231Nix: Right.
L232Tunde: And you're not in it if— we don't do this— well, me personally, we don't do this half-in, one leg in, one leg out type of thing.
L233Nix: Right.
L234Tunde: But here now we're going to see if it's going to work. I plugged it in, everything worked. Everything.
L235Tunde: The— the screen worked. My— my— I have this Ivanki docking station on the Ivanki website that said, "We built this docking station exclusively for Apple Silicon Macs."
L236Nix: Right.
L237Tunde: It will not work on Intel. That's what they put it there.
L238Nix: They put it on the box.
L239Tunde: It didn't work.
L240Nix: Right.
L241Tunde: Yeah, yeah. It's on the side. It's on the box.
L242Tunde: It's— and everyth— everything worked.
L243Nix: And it still worked.
L244Tunde: I got— yeah, everything. That screen, everything worked. So there are some— such that I then, uh, I had the work call.
L245Tunde: Google Meet, cameras, mics, everything was working. Did a work call, like, "For real?
L246Tunde: Is this— is that it? Everything just worked?"
L247Nix: Yeah, right.
L248Tunde: Yeah. That's why I was like, "Okay, okay, David's done something decent here." Then there were some small quirks, like, uh, my laptop is on, uh, UK keyboard layout, but the keyboard on the desktop is this Kinesis ergonomic type of keyboard.
L249Tunde: I was on a US layout, and the— it wasn't switching gracefully, so I fixed that. And unlike back in the day when you had to be digging into configuration files, etc., it was just, "Load up the agent, say, 'Go do this.'"
L250Tunde: And I was like, "Yeah, I found it. I'll add this patch."
L251Tunde: And 3 minutes, that was fixed. My screen, which I bought from Watching, uh, Linux, by the way, is video.
L252Tunde: It's, uh, a 27-inch 5K resolution, um, but the default had to 4K 60. So I just, again, told the agent that, "Dude, I paid good money for this.
L253Tunde: Can you please reconfigure?" 3 minutes later, reconfigured, 5K, 120.
L254Nix: Did you— do you actually see a real difference in the monitor when you do that?
L255Tunde: Yeah, when— more so on the Mac, but less so in Hyperland because it— Hyperland doesn't just waste time with sloppy animations that are flowing through. I think it's just blinking and out, yeah. But if you're scrolling, yes, you do see the difference.
L256Tunde: And with text, you definitely do see the difference. So that's how— that's how I switched.
L257Tunde: That's how I got into the Omarchy story then. Um, incidentally, I had bought XPS 16s for our developer dev teams, like, some months ago, so I just showed them, and they were like, "This is pretty cool."
L258Tunde: And that's how they also just made the switch. But the guys who couldn't switch are in, like, design and marketing because they still have a lot of creative tools.
L259Nix: Right.
L260Tunde: And there's a— there's a separate, uh, answer, which I'm sure you know about too, or you've heard about, to those ones, which we'll get to. Um, the meet— so the meetup. So how did we then get into the meetup?
L261Tunde: Um, I— I think this was initially inspired by how David even raised money for the foundation. This was literally a WhatsApp between himself and Toby.
L262Tunde: And he was like, "I'm thinking of doing this." I was like, "Yeah, I'll match you."
L263Tunde: And just like that, literally just like that, they did it. So when David made this post that, um, "This is our account on Luma.
L264Tunde: Anybody who wants to do meetups, like, you're free to do it. Just make sure you connect, you connect to this parent account," I saw that.
L265Tunde: I was driving, and I just parked the car, and I picked up the phone and I text my friend, who's— he's an— he's an engineering, uh, director here also in London with a company. The company's name is Wise.
L266Tunde: They're in the payments, uh, uh, payments business. They started out as TransferWise, but now they're called Wise.
L267[redacted: third party private information, lines 267 to 268]
L269Nix: Wow.
L270Tunde: So I text him. Yeah, I just text him saying, "Um, you've known me for, like, uh, 15 good years now, because he— he and I worked together at Sega Games many years ago, that there's this thing, it's called Omarchy, um, there's an opportunity to run the meetups. I think we'd do it.
L271Tunde: Uh, if you give me a venue, please just leave the logistics to me." So I parked.
L272Tunde: He was driving from Paris to London. I said, I said, "What, what?
L273Tunde: Like, venue for what?" I said, "Just park."
L274Tunde: He parked. I said it to him.
L275Tunde: He said, "Okay." Then he brought out his laptop and just started searching for meeting rooms.
L276Tunde: I said, "Okay, we have booked a room. It's on this date.
L277Tunde: Is that okay for you?" I said, "Perfect."
L278Tunde: And, uh, that's how it started.
L279Nix: Yeah.
L280Tunde: I got back to work. I started texting my marketing, uh, team, "Hey, guys, we're doing an event." I was like, "We are?"
L281Tunde: I said, "Yeah."
L282Nix: The boss— the boss says.
L283Tunde: Event. And, uh, we need this, uh, invite up in the hour. We do.
L284Tunde: And, uh, so that— that's how it actually happened. And the lesson there for me is, it's, uh, the worst that could happen.
L285Tunde: I mean, what's really the worst that could have happened?
L286Nix: Right.
L287Tunde: We said we were going to do the event, and we couldn't, and nobody turned up.
L288Nix: Right, right.
L289Tunde: But we should be thinking in terms of how big or what's the best that could happen.
L290Nix: I love that.
L291Tunde: As days. Yeah. What's the best?
L292Nix: What could go right?
L293Tunde: Yeah. What could go right? That's the way.
L294Tunde: Not— you could live your entire life with what could go wrong, what could go wrong, and never do anything that really matters to you.
L295Nix: Sure.
L296Tunde: But if you want to part this world and be able to say hand on heart that I did what I believe I was put here to do, then a lot of— a lot has to be about what could go right. What if it works?
L297Nix: Yeah.
L298Tunde: Yeah. So, uh, so that's how we started it. And, uh, all we did was just put it there on Luma, start circulating it within our networks.
L299Tunde: Um, then suddenly, uh, we got a message from, uh, the guy, Ren Cal, who builds this application called Ren Cal, saying, "Hey, this event's happening. I would love to present.
L300Tunde: These guys said you're looking for speakers." Like, "Yes, brother, come on."
L301Tunde: Um, Mehmet, I never— I didn't even know who was in the security team. Mehmet, who now runs the security team.
L302Nix: Yeah, yeah.
L303Tunde: That's a message that, "Hey, I would love to come."
L304Nix: Yeah, yeah, so smart.
L305[redacted: private, lines 305 to 308]
L309Tunde: I'm going to be there. So he joined, and he also presented.
L310Tunde: A gentleman, Gavin Nugent, who's been building this Omarchy creative suite, because he's been in post-production for 30 years.
L311Nix: Okay.
L312Tunde: Gavin. That's what he's been doing his entire life. I said, "Yeah, come along."
L313Tunde: So it— it all just snowballed, so to speak, um, from there. I think we happened to have the right venue.
L314Tunde: We happened to be in the right city, and it happened to be the right time, and we happened to be in a common interest with many people. I think that's— those would be the factors that influenced its success.
L315Nix: It's all that comes together.
L316Tunde: Yeah. So that's— I hope I properly explained the arc, how we got into it, how we got into the meetup, and how things have worked so far.
L317Nix: It was amazing. How— so you strike me as a very calm, influencing, very smooth, very— you're— you're— talk to me about your leadership style. I— like, I— I can't even imagine you raising your voice.
L318Nix: Like, I don't see you getting angry. I— I see you being very, very calm.
L319Nix: And, like, even under pressure, I think you probably get even more calm under pressure. Like, where did you learn that?
L320Nix: And, and, like, how does that influence your leadership style within your company?
L321Tunde: Okay. I think, um, I think there are a few layers to that. If we're just looking at, um, voice, a lot of how I feel and what I think just never shows up in my tone.
L322Tunde: So just by listening to my voice, it's quite difficult to— to detect if I'm really upset about something or really excited about something. It— at least people— people have told me that for, for years.
L323Tunde: And even people that mentored me said, "I need to know. That's how people are perceiving me."
L324Tunde: So if I'm very serious about something, I— I really need to find ways to communicate it because it just doesn't show up, like, in my voice.
L325Nix: Right, a very flat line and a smooth car.
L326Tunde: Yeah.
L327Nix: Yeah.
L328Tunde: Exactly. So there's— there's that element. Um, the— then the calm under pressure, I think— I think, yes, it exists most of the time.
L329Tunde: Um, for— for two main reasons. Um, one, one is, I've just— growing up, I saw a lot of, uh, negative results that came from people being emotional.
L330[redacted: private family detail, lines 330 to 332]
L333Tunde: So there was— but there was plenty of opportunity just to observe and watch people. So, um, I would see people who, on their own, could be rational, and then maybe they get riled up by something, they just get very emotional, and then they lash out, and that triggers an emotional response from someone else.
L334Tunde: And two people who ordinarily should care about themselves, just— the things just go downwards from there. So a lot of it came from observing that the best decisions hardly happen when you're emotional.
L335Tunde: So part of— part of that is one. And the second, and even most important part is, um, [redacted: private]
L336Tunde: And, um, so I really have no— I don't have any legs to stand on by entertaining worry or responding to pressure. And I'm yet to find anybody to tell me that hand on heart, we believe the right thing to do is to worry, to be emotional, and to make rash decisions.
L337Tunde: Like, nobody on earth really believes that. So those would be two things that— that— that drive— that drive that.
L338Tunde: I've not always been, um, 100% on the game in that area, but I— I definitely do strive to be. Um, leadership style, if I may then go into that, that's— that's— that's changed a lot over the years.
L339Tunde: Um, first, it was nonexistent, because as with many— as with many techies with, you know, any with above-average intelligence, you— you're so in love with your IQ and your own intellectual abilities that you— you really believe you can change the whole world based on your own abilities. And for the longest time, I believed that.
L340Tunde: It took me a long time to learn that, uh, the biggest shifts on earth have happened and only happened when a group of people got together. Now, you cannot achieve anything on your own.
L341Tunde: But we— I— I think engineers have a weakness that we really don't like to admit that. Uh, so if you've seen me posting recently that AI will make engineers better humans, because, you know, that thing you thought you held over people, you've lost it.
L342Tunde: Now you have to be a— a good human.
L343Nix: Wow.
L344Tunde: Um, so I— I— first it was nonexistent. Then I had to come to learn that, okay, it's a thing. And then it progressed from, you know, managing a team of engineers, like a small team of engineers, three, four engineers, um, at peak.
L345Tunde: This was with a large publicly traded company. Now, at peak, the entire engine arm of the technical teams I was responsible for was maybe 120-something at peak.
L346Tunde: It wasn't fun because I couldn't do interesting work. Um, so managing and leadership then had to evolve into, uh, just trusting people a lot more, uh, to— to make decisions and just give them room, just give them their own room.
L347Tunde: So I really went from getting into the nitty-gritty technical, uh, elements with people into at— at peak, it was, "This is what we want to achieve this year. These are the milestones for this quarter.
L348Tunde: This is the budget we've received from the company. So, um, this is X.
L349Tunde: You have a budget. Uh, do with it as you wish.
L350Tunde: Hire, buy infrastructure, buy software, do whatever. Uh, but this is— this is what we must deliver for the company.
L351Tunde: And right now, you've got 10, 20 people working for you. They're in these offices.
L352Tunde: Uh, let's check in every month if you have any issues. If something is going to derail us, like, call me straight away."
L353Tunde: So, um, that— that was one way. Um, but that's in— that's in the large established company.
L354Tunde: Um, then we— I also had to change a lot when I moved out of that into the startup scale-up scene, because things don't— you just can't assume anything exists. Anything you try is going to work.
L355Tunde: Nobody knows you. Nobody cares about you.
L356Tunde: You— you have to make a name for yourself. So, uh, leadership then was a different thing.
L357Tunde: Totally different game. Now, in our own company, um, it's even different.
L358Tunde: It's evolved again because we had to start from zero. And you— you have to fight for everything.
L359Tunde: You have to fight to start the company, fight to convince people to join you in starting the company. Uh, fight for capital, which we did, uh, fight and win.
L360Tunde: Uh, fight to hire, which we have— we did hire people. Um, just— just fight, fight, fight, fight, because— because when momentum is zero, you have to overcome the inertia to do something.
L361Tunde: So the leadership style, even now, is a lot— is a lot different. So what can I say?
L362Tunde: It didn't exist. I had to learn it wasn't necessary.
L363Tunde: It's evolved. The current version is— is from— is more about starting something from nothing, uh, right?
L364Tunde: And, um, it's— it's not— it hasn't— the calm demeanor wasn't something I think I was born with. I can trace it to specifically— to specific incidents that have influenced that.
L365Tunde: I— I hope that answered your question.
L366Nix: It really does. And as a— you know, you're a business owner, and I want to respect your time. So I've got one more question that I want to ask you, because, um, it's just occurred to me that this hour of time is, like, very expensive for you.
L367Nix: Um, I want to ask a question for you.
L368Tunde: No, that's fine.
L369Nix: Can you talk about the importance of culture and how you shape culture and how, um, you use culture within your company to— to, you know, build better products, lead people better, and— and how does culture direct— the— the main question is, how does culture directly apply to the benefit of your customers?
L370Tunde: Yes. I think, um, yes, culture is important. Um, there are certain— there are certain cultures.
L371Tunde: The culture of a company, uh, cannot be— you— you can't fake it, especially at our scale. In, uh, in large publicly traded companies, yes, it can be artificial because the latency from your action to outcome could be two years.
L372Tunde: Uh, if we make silly mistakes, we feel it immediately because we're still small. So culture is important.
L373Tunde: We cannot fake it. The culture is nothing more than the arithmetic sum of what everybody has agreed to bring to the table, because we— we can't fake it.
L374Tunde: And what does that mean? It really means, uh, there are businesses that could be legitimately good ideas.
L375Tunde: They could make money, but we are the wrong team to do that because our culture could make it fail. Um, but the line of business we're in, we're right for it because we think we have the right culture that can enable us to chisel out the right products, zero in on the right personas who care, offer it to them, and still be profitable.
L376Tunde: So I 100% believe culture is— is essential, but you really can't fake it. And— and especially if you're starting a business, you are who you are.
L377Tunde: At best, you are who you've agreed to be. And who you agreed to be just means, "Yes, this is how I am, and it's okay for the firm," or, "This is how I am, and these are the changes I need to make to— for this particular company to— company to work."
L378Nix: Wow.
L379Tunde: I think that— that would be my honest, uh, honest take on culture. And I'm trying to look at it from many perspectives, from being an employee, being a manager in a large company, in a mid-sized company, in a startup. Uh, but right— right now, if it's about us, um, it's who you are, or it's who you've collectively agreed to be.
L380Tunde: It, uh, it limits your options. Let's be honest.
L381Tunde: It means, "This is the kind of company you can build. You can't— you're just not right to build another company."
L382Tunde: And, uh, if you have that right mix of who you've agreed to be and the business you're building, be true to yourself, and definitely you'll be able to serve your customers.
L383Nix: No— no kidding? That's the most amazing definition of culture I've ever heard, ever.
L384Tunde: Wow.
L385Nix: Because everybody else says all the standard blah, blah, blah, uh, you know, preferred word, blah, blah, blah, lingo, blah, blah, blah. Um, you're an amazing person.
L386Tunde: I am.
L387Nix: Um, you sn— you snuck up on me and taught me some things. I really respected you before, um, on the spaces. And I got to tell you, you're— you're going to— you're going to make me think this afternoon.
L388Nix: And I— and, um, I'm humbled to call you my friend, if I may. And I really appreciate your time today.
L389Nix: Um.
L390Tunde: Thank you. Thank you very much.
L391Nix: There's— there's so much that I'm going to think about out of this conversation. Um, I really appreciate you, Tunde. I hope to see you on the spaces when we— when we can make it.
L392Nix: And thank you so much for spending this, uh, very expensive hour with me. I— I really appreciate you, sir.
L393Tunde: Oh, no. No worries, man. I appreciate it.
L394[redacted: private, lines 394 to 397]
L398Tunde: Yeah. So I— I'm— I'm— I want to be there. I— I do everything I can to promote the project, uh, support the group, do everything.
L399Tunde: And, um, I— I still— I'm still very bullish about the project. I like— I really like the crowd you guys have pulled together, and I respect you a lot for that.
L400Tunde: And I'm— I'm hopeful that we just keep getting more of the same kind of like-minded people. I think that's— that's what will really make it— make it work.
L401Nix: I appreciate you so much, man. Uh, anytime I see you on the space, if you want to speak, I encourage you to speak. Uh, you go to the front of the line every time because you have really— you know, a lot of the people on there just kind of bla— blabber on about things.
L402Nix: And you have a— you have a way of making the point, but also m— m— making a story in it somehow. And— and your communication is incredible.
L403Nix: Hey, um, thank you so much, Tunde.
L404Tunde: Thank you, sir.
L405Nix: Um, if you— if I can ever help you, you have my information. Um, I stand ready to do anything you need from me, and I'm at your disposal, sir.
L406Tunde: Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.
L407Nix: Have a wonderful evening. Thank you very much.
L408Tunde: Thank you.
L409Nix: Bye-bye.
L410Tunde: Bye.