Alex Okita: transcript · omarchy.builders

// cleaned transcript · Oct 20, 2026

Alex Okita: the conversation

This is the cleaned publication copy: noise, private topics and figures are removed and marked [redacted]. Line numbers match the original recording transcript.

L1Nix: What's up?

L2Nix: What's up, brother?

L3[redacted: private]

L4Nix: What's up, brother?

L5Alex: How you doing?

L6Nix: I'm doing awesome, man. You're early, I love it.

L7Alex: Yeah, well—

L8Nix: Look at you with the setup, man. This is awesome.

L9Alex: I do this for, like, all the morning meetings here, so everyone knows what day of the week it is.

L10Nix: Oh, how informational. You just help and help and help. Where does it end, Alex?

L11Nix: Where does it end?

L12Alex: Oh, it never ends. Of course not.

L13Nix: Oh man, this is going to be fun already, I can tell. Omarchy, suspicious. Alright, so let's get some housekeeping out of the way.

L14Alex: Sure.

L15Nix: Have you seen omarchy.builders website?

L16Alex: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I've noticed that you're doing, like, all these cool sort of profiles on people and all that kind of whatnot, so that's pretty neat.

L17Nix: And so this conversation right here is going to end up as one of those. Are you okay with that?

L18Alex: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

L19Nix: Okay. So I have to ask because I've done one where they went, "Well, wait a minute, I don't want all this out. I was just talking to you."

L20Nix: So I'll make it quick. And I respected that.

L21Alex: Okay.

L22Nix: They just become nonexistent on the page, which is their choice.

L23Alex: Mm-hmm.

L24Nix: Alright, so we are going to have so much stuff to get into. You got a great personality. Like, I already can tell, like, we're going to blow you the hell up.

L25Nix: Do you mind cursing? Does that bother you?

L26Alex: Oh, that's fine. Yeah.

L27Nix: Okay, cool. Because some people don't like it. And I'm not like a—I don't just throw them out there and throw them out there, but they slip.

L28Nix: Okay. So the way this kind of works is I want to get into, like, who you are and what drives you and that kind of thing.

L29Nix: I promise, like, I will end up giving you big wide questions.

L30Alex: Sure.

L31Nix: Like, if you feel like you're talking too much, keep talking. Because the content—right? So we want to talk about, like, what was your first computer and get those neurons firing.

L32Nix: Like, what was those memories? Like, how much fun was it?

L33Nix: And then drift in a little bit of, like, the middle of, like, the computer stuff that you've done and what you really liked and, like, you know, if Ubuntu was your jam or Windows 95 or whatever it was. And then I'll guide you along and we'll slowly get to, like, where was your first Omarchy, what got you into it, and then we'll go from there.

L34Alex: Sure. Sure.

L35Nix: So how did you, like, growing up, when you think about computers, like, what was the first one you laid eyes on? Did you get to play with it? And then where did you finally, like, when did you get on one and what's the computer you remember?

L36Nix: It's like, man, that thing was awesome.

L37Alex: Well, I think the first, like, kind of awesome thing that I remember was walking through, I think it was like a Macy's, and there was like a Vectrex on display. And a Vectrex was like this old vector game console. And it was like, it had like this, you know, colorful plastic overlay to give like these glowing white lines color.

L38Nix: And stuff a bit.

L39Alex: Yeah, no. And like, after that, like, so a friend of mine actually managed to find one and so we played with that. So that was like really like the first, like, sort of computer thing.

L40Alex: But like right after that, like in school, there was, what was it? I think it was like an Atari and I learned basic.

L41Alex: This is like, you know, some of those advanced learning classes and, you know, the, you know, just teaching kids how to program in basic. So making little turtles run around on the screen.

L42Alex: And I thought like, oh, this is just like Vectrex.

L43Nix: Right. You're already putting pieces together, which is the strength of the nerd.

L44Alex: Yeah, exactly. And then like, so at home, you know, I think I ended up getting like an Atari 800, which I still have.

L45Nix: That's awesome.

L46Alex: I have like the tape cassette reader somewhere up in the attic and stuff like that. And then we ended up getting an IBM.

L47Alex: So we got an IBM PC-AT and that had, I think, a 20 megabyte hard drive. And we had like a giant binder of floppy disks and the guy brought it home.

L48Nix: And you said megabyte, not gigabyte.

L49Alex: Correct. Yeah. 20 megabytes. And that one, I think that drive at the time was probably about [redacted] and weighed about 20 pounds, right?

L50Alex: So it was like this long shoebox metal thing.

L51Nix: Wow.

L52Alex: And yeah, you could hear it spin and like the computer box would shake a little bit, it seems like. And like I was already on, I think we had a 300 baud modem and connected to, you know, whatever.

L53Nix: BBS?

L54Alex: Yeah, BBS at the time. And so like right around there I moved on, I think, to like I never, like after that point, like it was always just like using somebody else's computer. So, you know, it was like whatever school's computer or like a computer a friend of mine had.

L55Alex: And I tried to get into, well, I got into like this sort of tech college at some point and like they had a silicon graphics workstation there.

L56Nix: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, those are hot.

L57Alex: Yeah. And, you know, and like, so that was like, you know, IRIX and all that kind of stuff. And like somewhere in there, like, you know, I had, what was it?

L58Alex: This guy was selling his license for this software called Strata Studio Pro. And that was like a very early on Mac 3D rendering application.

L59Nix: Right. Right.

L60Alex: And so that's kind of how I got into like doing 3D and 2D art for all that kind of stuff. And then I got a job working as a concept artist for Bungie.

L61Nix: Sweet.

L62Alex: Yeah. That was early on, right? So that was before Halo and all that kind of stuff, before they really blew up.

L63Alex: I was like the maybe 23rd person there or something like that.

L64Nix: Holy crap.

L65Alex: And like, you know, when they went and, you know, got bought by Microsoft, I was like, "Eh, I'll just stick around here." And then I started working a bunch of other stuff. And then like somewhere in there, like I was literally in a broom closet as a game designer, like just on paper games, working for a guy, Mike Pondsmith, who ended up doing Cyberpunk.

L66Alex: Like he was the original author of Cyberpunk, like the paper game.

L67Nix: Okay. Wow.

L68Alex: And so I was working for him for a little while and I got into that job literally by like finding out through a friend of mine that they had a silicon graphics workstation in a closet, literally a broom closet. Because I was like, they were in Berkeley and they wanted to keep their, you know, at the time, it must have been like [redacted] computer, right? And they had a license for Alias Wavefront.

L69Nix: That's like 64 gigs.

L70Alex: Exactly. Well, I mean, it was 16, no, that one was 16 megabytes of RAM. So that was actually a big computer back then.

L71Nix: Right, no doubt.

L72Alex: And like I had to, we got a license for Alias Wave, or Alias Wavefront, or no, no, no, it was Alias Power Animator and Wavefront Motion Graphics or something crazy like that. And like that's the origin of the OBJ or the DXF and OBJ file formats. And so like I was in a literal broom closet with like this, you know, [redacted] worth of computer and software.

L73Alex: And so like when I was at Bungie and then, you know, I went on to work for like some movie in Toronto after like Microsoft bought Bungie. And then I was working in, I think that was Red Hat.

L74Alex: You know, so like I've jumped around on a bunch of different operating systems and I never really kind of grew too attached to any one of them, really.

L75Nix: Right.

L76Alex: But like, you know, that entire time I was like kind of just hopping between like art and like engineering because.

L77Nix: How do those combine? Like how do you see those? A lot of people think nerd, like non-creative, but you probably see it differently, I think.

L78Alex: Yeah. Well, so there's like this Chinese proverb of like, "Give the hardest job to the laziest worker."

L79Nix: Okay, that's cool.

L80Alex: And the, like, that kind of influenced a lot of like how I approach things for.

L81Nix: That's really deep.

L82Alex: Because like I always wanted to look for an automation, right? So there's like this game studio that I was working for called Blackpoint. And our entire job there was building art assets for a bunch of other companies.

L83Alex: So like EA or Sony, Universal, and like, so like the process was always like, you know, getting like this pipeline set up and I had to like, you know, build some tools to like do all these imports and file cleanups and file renaming. And so that was all in like these really basic scripting languages.

L84Alex: And then I started getting into like doing more sophisticated tools inside of Maya.

L85Nix: Right.

L86Alex: And they had a thing called Maya Embedded Language at the time. So, or MelScript, I think it was referred to. And then that was, yeah, it was a very obscure, like it uses dollar signs.

L87Alex: I think it was, it looked like it was related to Perl, like on looking back, it probably wasn't, but it was kind of JavaScript-y, kind of almost like a web programming language inside of Maya. And so I started building automation tools through that, you know, and like that's kind of how I started getting into more and more programming.

L88Alex: So by the end of like, like when that studio was like looking for work, I was doing stuff in Unity because Unity was like this big new thing. You can make mobile games with Unity.

L89Nix: Right.

L90Alex: And so I started sitting just as a programmer for a long time. And then like, then I started working with [redacted].

L91Alex: And this guy, John Gaeta, which did the Matrix movies.

L92Nix: Man, you're like, you're bouncing and hitting orbits all over the place.

L93Alex: Yeah.

L94Nix: From Bungie to Cyberpunk to Matrix.

L95Alex: Yeah.

L96Nix: Like there's a theme there. There's a theme there.

L97Alex: Yeah.

L98Nix: Come on, Alex, give it up, man. There's a theme there. Like they're all related right there.

L99Alex: Yeah. You know, it's funny because like, so like John, we were starting to do stuff for him at his little studio. There was like, I think it was called Float Hybrid back then.

L100Alex: And we did prototyping work for Microsoft.

L101Alex: So, you know, it's like back to doing stuff for Microsoft all of a sudden. And then what that was, was for the early prototypes of the Kinect.

L102Alex: And so doing depth camera stuff and then trying to get like motion capture and like, you know, weird camera perspectives and that kind of stuff. Because like, you know, John Gaeta was like into like, you know, doing weird stuff with cameras.

L103Nix: They have a signature. You can see something and know it was them and you don't know how you know.

L104Alex: Yeah.

L105Nix: Right?

L106Alex: Yeah, exactly. You know, and so that was fun. And then like we did a bunch of weird stuff and then eventually got into like the Fortaleza project, which would turn into like their Microsoft like headset thing.

L107Alex: And so it was like a lot of VR, AR stuff again. And then at their lab, there was actually this, well, it kind of, and this was such a long time ago when Fortaleza was around, that they had like this weird rig that you stuck your face in and it had this variable focus thing.

L108Alex: And so when you have like a hologram in your hand, like at, you know, right in front of your face, the hologram of whatever it was, and we put like a little weird little lobster creature in there, was like here. And like your eyes actually focused like here.

L109Alex: And then when you move your hand away, your eyes focus on, you know, something further away.

L110Nix: And so you hit the optimal point.

L111Alex: Well, right now, almost all the headsets have this, all it does is just move the image, you know, like for each eye, it just moves them slightly away and your eyes focus on that. But like the focal plane is still like at arm's length. So there's this weird notion that like, you know, your brain thinks it's kind of far away, but your eyes don't.

L112Nix: And that's what makes it 3D-ish.

L113Alex: Yeah. Yeah. It's 3D-ish, but like when the actual lens of your eye focuses on something closer or distant, that completes that illusion.

L114Alex: And that's what this rig at Microsoft's earliest days was doing. It was actually moving that focal plane.

L115Nix: Can I press you on something?

L116Alex: Yeah, sure. Sure.

L117Nix: So you probably have pretty strong opinions on where virtual worlds are going and putting something on your head and being able to like feel like you're there. And I haven't really played around with that stuff because it's always like [redacted] for a experience.

L118Alex: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

L119Nix: But at some point, it's going to be [redacted], like stick the lasers on your eyes, get the compaction suits, plug into Elon Musk Neuroscience or Neuralink or whatever it is. And like you will be there. Do you think that that'll happen or do you think that that's like flying cars?

L120Nix: Wait, wait, oh, we do have flying cars.

L121Alex: Yeah.

L122Nix: Do you think it'll happen?

L123Alex: In a weird way, possibly. I think a lot of people are too, right now, there's such a pushback against just having cameras, which are necessary on the lenses of, or on the frames of the glasses. And, you know, people are just worried about that.

L124Alex: And then like there's this cost thing of like, you know, everyone is announcing these new things. It's like [redacted] or [redacted] for this, that, or the other thing.

L125Alex: And the price just keeps going up, right? Like all the new things keep coming out and they just keep staying like unobtainably expensive for everyone.

L126Alex: And I don't see that going down anytime. It's sort of like VRAM.

L127Alex: Like I don't see that price coming back anytime soon either, you know?

L128Nix: Right.

L129Alex: So, you know, I mean, yeah, that's a really hard thing for me to predict at all, you know, because like.

L130Nix: Well, you have opinions and I mean, everybody has opinions and you sound pretty educated on the topic. Just, I mean, I'm not trying to say, Alex a year and a half ago said this and it didn't happen. Like I'm truly just interested in your opinions about it.

L131Alex: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wish I knew more, but like I just, the market is right now is so, you know, wishful thinking.

L132Alex: Yeah, it's kind of what it seems like.

L133Nix: Do you think the technology is going to get there and it's going to be yet again another thing that the trillionaires are able to do that we're not able to do? Because the entry layer to being able to join that virtual world is [redacted] for this and [redacted] for that. And again, it stays in the hands of the able.

L134Alex: Yeah. It seems more like, so one of the projects I worked on was basically a virtual haunted house, right? And so these guys built a warehouse, you put on like the VR headset, you put a giant computer on your backpack and you go through a VR experience.

L135Alex: And like you pick up mechanical props, right? With like little servos and stuff in them.

L136Alex: So when you're shooting a gun, like the gun is actually kicking and you're actually in the, through the headset seeing a flash, right? And hearing like all the things.

L137Alex: And that was a location-based experience, right? So I think that seems to be the most accessible way to do these things is like going somewhere to experience it.

L138Nix: Right.

L139Alex: And.

L140Nix: Right. Right. And splitting the cost of the capital to be able to connect to it.

L141Alex: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

L142Alex: And I think that's kind of like where it's probably going to hover for quite some time. And, you know, that also means that the audience, general audience is going to be fairly limited to like, you know, who's actually going to be playing with these things.

L143Alex: So.

L144Nix: Right.

L145Alex: And otherwise, it's going to be like, you know, you go to like the Hyundai factory or something like that and then they give you one of these things as a new hire and you learn how to do your job in virtual reality, then they take that thing away from you when you're done. So that's the other location-based kind of experience.

L146Nix: Wow.

L147Alex: And yeah, I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. It's probably going to be like that for several more years.

L148Nix: Right.

L149Alex: Anyway, but like that's.

L150Nix: Let's take you, let's take it to, let's take it to how you met Omarchy, what it does for you and like start early. Like I figured, I installed it, but I didn't know what the heck it was. And like I didn't like it.

L151Alex: Well, like I put it on my phone. Yeah. Like I put it on my phone first, that little Omarchy launcher.

L152Nix: Right.

L153Alex: And I was like, well, this is nice. And then like I was like, well, there's not enough features on this like launch or landing page. So it was like, so I literally like, oh, there's a Grok thing on here.

L154Alex: So I clicked on that and then like going, what can you do? What is your workspace?

L155Alex: Because I was, you know, at that point, I was just doing automations and getting everything like, you know, done for me. And it's like, oh, it has this workspace, has all these tools.

L156Alex: And it's like, oh, it has GUI stuff in here. I'm like, well, it doesn't have a clock.

L157Alex: Like there's no clock on this landing page. So can you add a clock?

L158Alex: And it was like going, well, let's see if this works, right? So I asked it, like, can you make a clock and make it another time zone for Tokyo underneath it, right?

L159Alex: And I want a 24-hour clock because I, you know, if I'm going to have another time zone that's on the other side of the planet, I want to know if it's AM or PM over there at a glance. And then it worked for about like 10 minutes.

L160Alex: And then like two clocks showed up on the landing page. And I was like, well, look at that.

L161Alex: And I showed people and they're like, what? Like that's a new widget.

L162Alex: Like I didn't have to download that or anything. It just made it for me.

L163Alex: And I was like, well, that's cool. Like that's a good experience, right?

L164Alex: And then, so I had to go digging through all my old stuff and I found an old potato Mac and I was like going, oh, this might work. And then I, you know, stuck that on my desk and now I have like too many monitors around me.

L165Alex: But like, so then I got it on, yeah. So then I got it on this old, you know, Intel dual core Mac with like eight gigs of RAM.

L166Alex: So, and it's a lot faster now than it was when it was a Mac.

L167Nix: Right.

L168Alex: And I have like all the things that I'm used to seeing. So there's GrokBot and there's, you know, my Hermes agent and OpenClaw and all that kind of stuff working on it. And the funny thing is, Hermes agent or the Hermes desktop doesn't install on an Intel Mac, right?

L169Alex: They don't have a binary for Intel Macs. So when I got like, you know, the Omarchy on here and I was able to install Hermes desktop over here, I'm like going, yay, I have the things that I want, you know?

L170Alex: So that, like, so that's like a huge thing right there. And then, you know, it feels very different, you know, compared to like, you know, some of these other things where the windows are just, you know, cluttering, you know, randomly all over the place.

L171Alex: So it feels like it's organizing for me, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, I could pop them out, but, you know, the windows that is.

L172Alex: But like, it's a good experience, you know? And the fact that I could just ask, you know, an agent just to like, you know, make a widget that I need or make a, you know, convenience rather than always looking for something and then trying out like five different versions of it, you know?

L173Alex: Yeah. Like the other thing that like I have a custom email host on my desk.

L174Alex: So that's my, you know, it's just like this little Synology email host.

L175Nix: Right.

L176Alex: And setting up like all the ports and, you know, like, you know, because I move things off of regular SMTP IP addresses and stuff like that. So that way the Russian hackers don't sit on it all day.

L177Nix: Right.

L178Alex: So like, you know, it usually takes me some time to configure an email client, but in this case, I just asked like, you know, an agent just to like going, oh, here's some of the settings that I need for my email. Can you set that up? And then, yeah.

L179Nix: Sure. How do you decide when something's too small? Like I found myself doing menial tasks because I'm lazy.

L180Alex: Yeah. I think it's, it's actually, I'm getting even more lazy possibly because I'm starting to ask my agents to do more and more for me.

L181Nix: Right. Right. So we're disconnecting from skills, from like, I feel myself losing Ubuntu skills.

L182Alex: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like Debian CLI commands, I'm like, oh, I knew this.

L183Alex: And then like I just kind of want an agent to like remind me of like all these things.

L184Nix: You know, like how much storage space do I have left? Like all I had to do is type DU.

L185Alex: Exactly. Exactly.

L186Nix: But it's like you had to move to a terminal, like open up, like it's like the moving around, like I'm becoming more like tuned into like what I have to do to make something happen. And like to your point, lazy, like I'm finding where can I do something right there instead of having to, like right now I'm talking to you on this Mac and I find like as I'm talking to you, I am in this conversation, but like I have to move around and like, and I

L187Nix: just don't have to move, like I don't have to do that stuff on Omarchy. It's just like move, move, move, move, move quick. Is that been your experience?

L188Alex: Yeah. You know, like it's a lot easier just to like flip between things for some reason. Like, you know, Windows and the macOS, they all have like this multiple desk sort of concept, but I never use it.

L189Alex: But for some reason on Omarchy, it's easier to just like tab through things. Part of it is also like the behavior on the Mac with like the tab, like the command to switch apps.

L190Alex: For whatever reason, it never works. Like the next app is never the one that I actually wanted it to be.

L191Alex: It's just like this weird UI, UX thing. And I end up like, you know, having to like use the mouse all the time.

L192Alex: Whereas like for some reason, Omarchy, like it's maybe because it's forced to just organize me.

L193Nix: Right.

L194Alex: Like it's easier to figure out like where I am. You know, I don't know if that's true or not, but like it certainly feels that way.

L195Nix: Oh yeah.

L196Alex: But yeah. And, you know, the funny thing is like since I've been doing so much more like web development, I'm on my Windows machine so much less. So like even though I actually have a, that's actually my newest machine is the Windows thing, but they're all potatoes now at this point.

L197Alex: Although, wait, no, I do have a newer Mac. That is, I do have a new Mac Mini from about a year ago.

L198Alex: So, but that I got specifically just to put OpenClaw on. And like, so I was like, we, you know, I was like going, oh, we want to do like this, what was it, Moltbook thing.

L199Alex: Just have like an agent playing around on the internet on our behalf. So we got the little Mac Mini.

L200Nix: What hub are you looking at, right? So do you give the old credit card and say goodbye Ferrari? Where do you stop it?

L201Nix: Because that's a topic that everybody's kind of getting into and it's interesting where people stop.

L202Alex: Yeah. Well, I gave it its own, I mean, it named itself.

L203Nix: And this is Herrner or this is Hermes?

L204Alex: This was OpenClaw. Initially, I mean, that was a pain to set up like from their very early days before they got.

L205Nix: Oh man, and now it's easy.

L206Alex: Yeah, it is now. But like, and now I don't even set anything up. Like I just have an agent set things up for me.

L207Nix: And if you were an early user, do you remember like connecting it to say Signal was very difficult or Telegram? And now it's just like click.

L208Alex: Yeah. Well, I mean, I had to make like the, what was it? Slack.

L209Alex: I decided that I was going to use Slack. And so I had to like make this permissions and make an agent.

L210Nix: Right. And you did it yourself.

L211Alex: Yeah.

L212Nix: Like it's nice when they built stuff in that you force or isn't it nice that when they build things in that you were forcing because you wanted it, it's validation that you're on the right track.

L213Alex: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

L214Alex: Exactly. And well, I mean, it's still in my Slack, this like clump of agent remnant.

L215Nix: Right. How do you think about that? Do you clean that up and use the official or do you usually keep using your own because it's better than the feature?

L216Alex: I think I just left it there. And like since when even now that I've updated it, it still works, you know? So I don't know if I necessarily need to remove it.

L217Nix: Right. The thought for me is okay, does their version have more, like if it's an MCP that they come out with, like does their version have more information in it than mine does? So I'm always trying to look for, use my version.

L218Nix: If something official comes out, don't just switch, go up there and grab, like they allow more things. So use my version still, but like go effectively use the things that we didn't think about.

L219Alex: Yeah. Yeah. No, I haven't, I mean, it's one of those things, if it, like same thing with my email server, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

L220Nix: Right. Right.

L221Alex: So yeah, like, you know, it's been a much better experience lately updating things, you know, as well.

L222Nix: Yeah. And reconnecting and the minutia, I'm finding like, and sorry, I'm not wanting to put things in your head, but I'm finding that like the fun of it in the early day, and I'm calling this the earlier, like a month and a half or two months ago.

L223Alex: Yeah.

L224Nix: Like you really had to like, cool ideas come out, but they're still a little jagged and you go in there and you're knocking these little edges off and making it cool to you. And like then it comes out and it's like, oh, you don't have to do any of that. It's all just one click.

L225Nix: Would you like me to handle all that s*** that took two hours from you last time? Yes.

L226Nix: And so like then it's for me, it's like where do you jump off on their version? Where do you use yours plus theirs?

L227Nix: And do you think there's value in that you, Alex, like went through the struggle, like woo, struggle, but you know how the stuff works because I think in even six months, like I see people getting away from Kodak, Kimmy, and command line harnesses and like going straight to GrokBot because like, and I'm doing it too because GrokBot can now use Claude Code as a sub-agent.

L228Alex: Right.

L229Nix: And so are you seeing all that? Are you doing all this?

L230Alex: Well, it certainly makes me appreciate what they're doing now.

L231Nix: Yeah.

L232Alex: A lot more. And when someone like Kiro was one of the very early things that came out with the spec, right? So like Kiro came up with the spec and then I thought that was brilliant.

L233Alex: So I started using that in cursor. And then just recently, Kiro Cruise came out.

L234Alex: So basically, Kiro's answer to really it's Hermes at this point. And Kiro Cruise is like absolutely fantastic.

L235Alex: And they took a lot of the concepts out of like OpenClaw and Hermes and made it pretty. Like they just made a beautiful little scene around it and just did a fantastic job on that.

L236Alex: And like they made cron jobs really easy to manage in there. They made workflows really easy to manage in there.

L237Alex: And so like seeing how they make the features that used to be a pain in the butt to set up and seeing how they made it usable is really like the UI/UX team they have at over at, I guess it's Amazon now, is pretty outstanding. But like that understanding of how to make the UI/UX only comes from the fact that they have gone through that pain of setting it up, right?

L238Alex: And if you have that experience as to like going, oh, this part is awful, this part is like too complex, but it's really only doing one thing, right? And then that should just be a button, you know, like that understanding of like, you know, where the pain points are and trying to get to something that's more usable, more user-friendly, and looks better.

L239Alex: You have to have that experience, right? You have to have gone through all that like awful setup and like going, like all it's doing is just turning on like 16 switches in Slack's UI to give the agent permissions, for instance.

L240Nix: Right.

L241Alex: Right? Like I only need these like eight switches now. And then like unfortunately, Slack is like they made it so difficult to set up a custom thing that now you just really should just do it with a CLI of some kind.

L242Alex: But that also means that your agent, like all agents just need these eight switches, not, you know, out of like the 300 that are there, they only need these eight, but you still have to fish through like a million, like a mile-long scroll window to find them. So that being smoothed out is just from knowing like what the regular experience is and then just like going, oh, that should just be one button.

L243Nix: Right.

L244Alex: Right. Like that's the conclusion. And.

L245Nix: Right. But are we losing, is there something lost in the like even three, six months ago that like you'll install it and there's a beauty of the non-technical person being able to get on their Mac and go, what is this? I have no idea.

L246Nix: And click it and it goes, install Claude Code. Yeah.

L247Nix: Okay, cool. And then click the next thing and it just onboards them a whole way.

L248Nix: The downside is they have no idea how it works. The upside is that more people have access to these tools.

L249Nix: Where is the danger in learning and like the information loss that we are given over? Do you follow me?

L250Nix: Like in Claude Code, the last bastion of information is in Claude Code. Read what it's doing.

L251Nix: Very shortly, you go to the GrokBot version because it's so easy clean. You see none of the guts.

L252Nix: You don't learn. No idea what FSH is.

L253Nix: Like talk to me about like is that a problem?

L254Alex: Yeah.

L255Nix: Is that a beauty? Is that a beautiful thing? Are we like, where is the bad?

L256Nix: Where's the good?

L257Alex: You know, philosophically, I think there's going to be, excuse me, I don't think there's going to be a loss of information.

L258Alex: Oh, excuse me.

L259Alex: Throat got dry there. I think there's going to be like a continuation of people who are curious versus people who just want to like try and do like generate a class for their kids or something, you know?

L260Alex: And the audience or the group of people that is curious enough to go, how does this work? Like they were doing that when like C compilers were making Assembly.

L261Alex: And when the vast majority of programmers never knew Assembly, like there was still a portion of them that was curious enough to go, how does my compiler work? Right?

L262Alex: And then they would go and find like, you know, the long gray book for their 6800 and then like discover like what was happening underneath the hood. And I think like even moving into the future, right, where we're now so disassociated from like, you know, the guts that are happening inside the computer or the actions that are happening inside of the guts of the computer, right?

L263Alex: That there's still going to be a part of the audience that is like going, oh, how does this actually do that? And then the curiosity, I think, of human nature will still exist.

L264Alex: And there's still going to be a number of people that are like, you know, like curious enough to like wonder what's underneath the hood and then find like going, oh, this is SSH. And then like, how does SSH work?

L265Alex: And then go, oh, it's like, you know, it's a protocol. Oh, well, protocol is it?

L266Alex: What is this protocol running on? Oh, it's like, you know, packet, you know, information.

L267Alex: And then what is like in a packet, like, you know, so they'll, like it's part of a transport layer.

L268Nix: What's going on? Like what's in a packet is never more to be learned by anybody unless they go looking for it and few will.

L269Alex: Right. Yeah. And I think that like how many people, like web designers are actually curious about like the packet structure.

L270Nix: So that really small section of people, web designers, which is really small.

L271Alex: It is, yeah.

L272Nix: You blow that up and the people that care about the packets of that subsection are really small. So we're getting into a group of people in the whole world. It's a really small section of people to be technical.

L273Nix: It's much smaller to be a web designer and it's even more smaller to be interested in the gut. So I think we're going to lose all that information.

L274Nix: I do. And I think it's, I think like, you know, cars in the '70s before you were born, like you could just go, oh, there's the problem, fix it, get on the road, keep moving.

L275Nix: And pretty much everybody could do it.

L276Alex: Right.

L277Nix: Because there's like things you had to look for. And now you open up your BMW or even your Hyundai or whatever and it's just like carbonite sealed and like there's nothing you can do. And we've accepted that.

L278Nix: And that's okay.

L279Alex: I haven't accepted that.

L280Nix: Again, again, Alex, you prove my point. You're in such a small community of people that care and that numbers are not growing.

L281Alex: It might be a little bit. There might be more.

L282[redacted: private, lines 282 to 291]

L292Alex: But yeah, no, I mean, I think from what I can tell, there's like, there is certainly a group of the younger kids that is at least curious enough to want to know what's going on behind the scenes on their computers.

L293Alex: Like in my neighborhood, actually, this is kind of hilarious. So the South Bay, right?

L294Alex: And a while back, like, you know, it was definitely like just everybody's like, you know, on their little kick scooters and it was a very vanilla neighborhood.

L295Alex: But then like those kids that are graduating high school now, like I noticed there's like three or four like car project kids in this area. And one of them had like, was driving around the neighborhood in a stripped down, no body panels on a, what is it, like an old 2001 BMW with most of the motor hanging out, right?

L296Alex: He was just testing the transmission apparently. And then like I saw him back at the house, the car was literally lifted up about 45 degrees on like some jacks so that way him and his friend could work underneath it, right?

L297Nix: Yep.

L298Alex: And like across the corner from there, there was another car that was like a bullet-nosed RX-7 that was in a similar situation. And I was like, like, that's cool. Like these high school kids are actually driving around in cars they put back together.

L299Nix: Yeah, there's something to that, man. It's like, good on you guys. That generation's going to be all right because no politics and we don't do politics.

L300Nix: I'm not even going to guess. I don't care what politics are.

L301Nix: But it is good to like see the kids, the kids just might be okay because there was a stretch there that I was thinking we are f*****.

L302Alex: Right? Yeah, yeah. And so after I saw that, I'm like, that's pretty cool, right?

L303Alex: And like.

L304Nix: Yeah, a little bit like go, hey, boys, like put the little X on the Y and they're like, and like you give them a whole nother like rabbit hole to go down.

L305Alex: Right? Yeah, exactly. But yeah, no, I was stoked.

L306Alex: Like, was it a, I had a Grok agent that I'd said like, oh, Grok, I need to figure out like why the headlights on a Trailblazer went out. I think it might be a fuse, but I don't know which fuse it is.

L307Nix: Right.

L308Alex: Like find me the wire, the fuse box diagram. So I popped open the hood and like going, oh, here's the fuse box diagram. Look for like these two.

L309Alex: And I'm like, oh, thanks. I didn't even bother to look it up.

L310Alex: I just pulled them out. No, these fuses are fine.

L311Alex: What else could it be? You know?

L312Alex: And so, you know, I was going through my agent and it was like going, oh, go to Craig and get this part. And I'm like, all right.

L313Alex: Well, I didn't even know what the part was. I just went to the counter and says, I need a 165.

L314Nix: Right.

L315Alex: And the guy comes out with this little box and I'm like going, oh, that must be a relay.

L316Nix: Right. And I think the internet is a superpower for [redacted] because we already kind of have an idea. We just get validation from ideas to go, okay, yeah, you're correct.

L317Nix: Whereas I think generations below us are just immediately go here. Immediately.

L318Alex: Right. Yeah, yeah. No, that is true.

L319Alex: Because like at least I knew where the fuse box was and like, you know, that kind of stuff. I knew what the diagram was.

L320Nix: What a fuse is.

L321Alex: Right. Or a relay for that matter, you know?

L322Alex: But yeah, you know, I think there's still going to be a cluster of curious people that, you know, will seek out like the truth in the matter, right? And it's always been small, right?

L323Alex: To be very fair. Like the people who are truly innovative and, you know, like that would seek out, you know, how things actually work.

L324Alex: That's always been a very small group. And I don't think, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's important that they stay small because then they'll know one another, right?

L325Alex: Because that's what really helps. And here's the, like here's a weird thing, right?

L326Alex: Like when there's like a community that is too big, right? You tend to get lost in it and then your contribution is weakened.

L327Nix: Hold on. Hold on. Say that one more time.

L328Nix: That was a big one.

L329Alex: When a community is too big, right? And you have a voice in it, your contribution is lessened, right? Like because it's diluted.

L330Alex: Yeah, it's diluted, right?

L331Nix: It's very similar to I try to help people use AI and like my voice is lost in the AI bros that want to sell you a course for [redacted] and nobody like.

L332Alex: No Goldie.

L333Nix: People just put me in that category that I'm going to end up asking them for money and don't trust me.

L334Alex: Right, right. Yeah, you know, and like most of like X is dominated by people talking about like the next released model.

L335Nix: And it's all like clickbait. Like all the AI bros that say you can have a complete Claude Code Opus experience on a local GPU with 12 gigabytes of RAM, just pay [redacted] and I'll teach you how to do it. And it's all b*******.

L336Alex: Right.

L337Nix: And we can't do that right now. And if you look at what the AI bros are doing, they're getting people that don't really know what's really true going, wow, that's possible now? I'll pay for that because that's what I want.

L338Nix: And they have no idea. Everybody's looking for, if I can just pay [redacted], I can get there.

L339Nix: And the AI bros are taking advantage of that.

L340Alex: Yeah. Yeah, it's really unfortunate, but like I think that's why if there is a community of people who are actually hopeful, it's important that it doesn't get like flooded by like a huge amount of, you know, or like if it turns into a million voices, then the important ones will get clobbered by that, right?

L341Nix: Right.

L342Alex: And I think like in a similar way, like when people are curious about a specific technology, like they tend to cluster because of that, right?

L343Nix: Well, the pole will march you into that and keep talking.

L344Alex: Yeah. And well, that's kind of the thing, right? Like when there is like a technology that is important enough to a certain number of people, then, you know, like the contributions by each individual is more important, right?

L345Alex: And I think that's kind of like when I was just like, you know, goofing around and it was just like, oh, I want this feature, right? And then if I look for it, it doesn't necessarily exist yet because, you know, the community is still very small, right?

L346Alex: So when like I wanted to make a better email client that, you know, is something just as simple as that, right? There's like Geary and Hay and there's a couple others out there, but like, you know, like I just want something really like a lot more simplified.

L347Alex: I don't want all these extra inboxes and like folders and all that kind of crap. I just, I really just want something where I could just like filter stuff and then delete all of the one that matches a filter, that kind of thing, right?

L348Nix: Right.

L349Alex: Basically like going all the way back to Eudora or something like that.

L350Alex: Like I have all these old things in my head that like, you know, they, like people kept adding features to the things that I don't want and I just want like the basic version of it. And, you know, and I think that's, it's funny that like, you know, Omarchy has like this kind of 8-bit feel to a lot of it, you know, and, you know, it brings me all the way back to like, you know, the fact that I, you know, my first like real programming

L351Alex: computer that I was playing with used cartridges, right? Like.

L352Nix: Right.

L353Alex: So yeah, I think like it's important for people that have a voice for that voice to be heard.

L354Nix: So as we wrap up, can you give me your, just say out loud very clearly your X handle for the record so I don't have to go match Alex because I get everybody's name, but they don't always match up to the X handle and I've got this problem and I've been like, who is that on X? Like it's Mr. Dr.

L355Nix: Sunshine 33 with Bob. Like I have no way to put them together.

L356Alex: Right. Yeah.

L357Nix: So go through who you are. Any projects on GitHub that you want to like shout out, any websites that you want to shout out as long as it's not a company paying, like it's not an endorsement. If it's your personal stuff, like tell me all the stuff where people can find you.

L358Alex: Oh, sure. So my handle on X is @alexokita and that is A-L-E-X O-K-I-T-A. And like there's no number because I got my handle earlier on.

L359Alex: And the funniest thing that I'm working on right now is dreamsprite.ai.

L360Nix: Dream spray?

L361Alex: dreamsprite.ai. So this is a shell for Hermes that I was laughing about because this doesn't exist anywhere. And we're putting anime characters on top of it.

L362Nix: Yeah, I can see that. You must be running it through a tunnel back to your house.

L363Alex: No, no, this is going to be like a little app that you download.

L364Nix: Yeah, it's very heavy. It's a very heavy download. You may want to check that.

L365Alex: Yeah, yeah.

L366Nix: The splash screen's very heavy.

L367Alex: Yeah, it has been optimized. So it's basically just that right now. But it's basically going to be a goofy like anime dating game shell for your AI agents.

L368Alex: So that way, rather than just like a little blob with eyeballs on it, it's going to be a handsome butler.

L369Nix: I like it. I really do like it.

L370Alex: Yeah. So that like, and then also it's an aggregator, right? So there's going to be Hermes.

L371Alex: Right now I have Hermes, Grok, and Cursor and they could actually talk to one another.

L372Nix: You need to update your site, bro. It says planned.

L373Alex: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does say planned right now, but you know, that's coming.

L374Alex: So like.

L375Nix: Gotcha, gotcha.

L376Alex: Yeah. It's working on my local right now, but like, you know, I haven't pushed all the changes up to git yet. And the other part was like I started this as actually the extension of my bot.farm.

L377Alex: And that's the first thing that I really started getting into. And that was basically a way to share agents between Grokbot, Hermes, OpenClaw, and Kiro.

L378Nix: Right.

L379Alex: And like that's what kind of led into doing the Dream Sprite project somehow.

L380Nix: That's cool. Isn't it amazing? Like even six months ago, there's no way you could even attempt that.

L381Alex: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

L382Alex: So yeah, that's my project that I've been playing with on Omarchy is like I've been mostly doing a lot of the development for the Dream Sprite project.

L383Nix: Is there a GitHub for that yet?

L384Alex: I believe so. It is on, let me double check this, slash okita-io.

L385Nix: Yeah, so always put a link to your GitHub in the site itself for your own bot. And here's why.

L386Alex: Oh, yeah, yeah.

L387Nix: Months later when you want to go back and edit it, you can have your new bot where you don't know where the project is, go look at the site and it knows where to find the GitHub and then they can move itself there. You follow me?

L388Alex: That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

L389Nix: It's a big one. It's a pretty big one actually. Put your GitHub link in, even if it's hidden in the site so that your new agent can go find where the repo is, clone it down and you can keep moving.

L390Alex: That's a good one. Yeah.

L391Nix: Full of tips and tricks, brother.

L392Alex: Thank you.

L393Nix: All right. Well, I'm going to give you the last word, man. It's been a great time and you're super interesting.

L394Nix: Can't wait to, is there anything you don't want to have in the transcript put into the record? And then here's what happens.

L395Nix: When I hang up, all my bots go look at the MCP up to Wispr Flow, grab the conversation, grab the video, make shorts out of it, all of it. So here's the magic of it all.

L396Nix: This is the super part that I don't tell you to the end. You are now going to write the prompt that builds your profile.

L397Nix: So when it closes, it's going to look for me asking you, how do you want me to write the prompt? So you are now writing the prompt out loud to say how you want this whole script to be put into omarchy.builders.

L398Nix: Now there's a framework that it's going to follow, but you're going to be the star here. So write your own prompt for this conversation to go up onto Omarchy Builders.

L399Nix: Go.

L400Alex: Oh my goodness.

L401Nix: It's fun like this. It puts you on the spot a little bit.

L402Alex: It does. Wow. So yeah, I mean, I think just like a punchy, quick, brief and succinct summary of basically everything that we've been talking about so that way it's not so wordy.

L403Nix: There you go. I'm kind of like trying to make everything as meta as possible. What do you think?

L404Alex: That is pretty hilarious. Yeah. I mean, you know, the funniest thing was like I had Qwen debug its own interface in the Dream Sprite and it found its own conversation with me and it realized, oh, this is me.

L405Nix: Talking to me, talking to you, talking to me.

L406Alex: Yeah. And I was like, wow. It's so cool.

L407[redacted: private]

L408Alex: Exactly.

L409Nix: All right, brother.

L410Alex: All right.

L411Nix: Good times. I'll be looking for your spot up there pretty shortly.

L412Alex: Will do. Yeah, thank you.

L413Nix: Thanks for the time, man. It was a lot of fun. You're very cool.

L414Alex: All right. Talk to you later.